Comments on: Slow(ing) Traffic http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/ Getting Around on Two Wheels and Two Feet Tue, 22 May 2012 23:22:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Andy Cline http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/comment-page-1/#comment-5204 Andy Cline Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:18:14 +0000 http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=2131#comment-5204 Eliot et. al. -- This (Keri's comment) is why I say, and am comfortable saying, speed kills. The box has been engineered to encourage speed, to make speed feel safe under many conditions. While I generally try to avoid over-generalizing, this is one generalization I'm generally comfortable making :-) I also want to resist any notion that any of us are so skilled that we can drive these things safely at high speed. One might also generalize: Hubris kills. Eliot et. al. — This (Keri’s comment) is why I say, and am comfortable saying, speed kills. The box has been engineered to encourage speed, to make speed feel safe under many conditions. While I generally try to avoid over-generalizing, this is one generalization I’m generally comfortable making :-) I also want to resist any notion that any of us are so skilled that we can drive these things safely at high speed. One might also generalize: Hubris kills.

]]> By: Keri http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/comment-page-1/#comment-5203 Keri Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:14:54 +0000 http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=2131#comment-5203 I agree with Elliot about driver education. That is a huge factor. It's not speed so much as inappropriate speed, lack of skill, attention and personal responsibility. Another deficiency is aggressive enforcement. That's required to bring this run-away train back under control. We have virtually no social structures in place to insist upon or reinforce proper behavior. It is well known that the cops won't bother to pull you over for less than 10mph above the speed limit anywhere but in a school zone. So motorists drive 10-15mph over everywhere but in a school zone. Speed is just one element. The core problem is self-centered lack of concern for the integrity of the community or the safety of other individuals in the system. The car-safety technology is part of this. Make it safer for the person in the box with no consciousness of how the box touches people outside it. The safer the person in the box feels, the more dangerous he becomes to the people outside it. I agree with Elliot about driver education. That is a huge factor. It’s not speed so much as inappropriate speed, lack of skill, attention and personal responsibility.

Another deficiency is aggressive enforcement. That’s required to bring this run-away train back under control.

We have virtually no social structures in place to insist upon or reinforce proper behavior. It is well known that the cops won’t bother to pull you over for less than 10mph above the speed limit anywhere but in a school zone. So motorists drive 10-15mph over everywhere but in a school zone.

Speed is just one element. The core problem is self-centered lack of concern for the integrity of the community or the safety of other individuals in the system.

The car-safety technology is part of this. Make it safer for the person in the box with no consciousness of how the box touches people outside it. The safer the person in the box feels, the more dangerous he becomes to the people outside it.

]]> By: Eliot http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/comment-page-1/#comment-5202 Eliot Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:28:12 +0000 http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=2131#comment-5202 I've always been quite conflicted by this type of discussion. Being a cyclist, I don't really like fast (>40mph) vehicles next to me. But being a very happy driver with many car-crazy friends, I don't really believe that speed kills. Distractions: yes. Speed in dense areas: yes. Speed on a freeway: not so much. I have driven often in the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany (and at great speeds on the German autobahn) and I was continually impressed with how *good* the drivers are. I am completely shocked every time I come back from a trip to Europe and hop on to 635. As with cycling, I feel that lack of proper driver education is the real killer. Our "right" to drive has superseded any sort of real driver education. I’ve always been quite conflicted by this type of discussion.

Being a cyclist, I don’t really like fast (>40mph) vehicles next to me. But being a very happy driver with many car-crazy friends, I don’t really believe that speed kills.

Distractions: yes.
Speed in dense areas: yes.
Speed on a freeway: not so much.

I have driven often in the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany (and at great speeds on the German autobahn) and I was continually impressed with how *good* the drivers are. I am completely shocked every time I come back from a trip to Europe and hop on to 635.

As with cycling, I feel that lack of proper driver education is the real killer. Our “right” to drive has superseded any sort of real driver education.

]]> By: Steve A http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/comment-page-1/#comment-5201 Steve A Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:12:11 +0000 http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=2131#comment-5201 That sounds a lot like using pedestrians as traffic calming devices. Myself, I think the key is to restore the notion that it is a privilege to drive on a local street, not an entitlement, and that free parking at local stores is an unexpected bonus rather than a hidden tax on those that don't USE that wasted space. I think it is different on large inter-city highways that are not so well suited to nonmotorized transport. That sounds a lot like using pedestrians as traffic calming devices.

Myself, I think the key is to restore the notion that it is a privilege to drive on a local street, not an entitlement, and that free parking at local stores is an unexpected bonus rather than a hidden tax on those that don’t USE that wasted space. I think it is different on large inter-city highways that are not so well suited to nonmotorized transport.

]]> By: Andy Cline http://isocrates.us/bike/2009/12/slowing-traffic/comment-page-1/#comment-5200 Andy Cline Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:35:51 +0000 http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=2131#comment-5200 Lovely... There are all kinds of things that make up car culture and the culture of speed. Another: the car as a status symbol -- the faster and/or more powerful the higher the status. Just try to drive Corvette slowly :-) Lovely… There are all kinds of things that make up car culture and the culture of speed. Another: the car as a status symbol — the faster and/or more powerful the higher the status. Just try to drive Corvette slowly :-)

]]>