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	<title>Comments on: Frosty! part 2</title>
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	<link>http://isocrates.us/bike/2008/11/frosty-part-2/</link>
	<description>Getting Around on Two Wheels and Two Feet</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Cline</title>
		<link>http://isocrates.us/bike/2008/11/frosty-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Robert... Yes. I&#039;m familiar with those issues. One interesting thing to remember: Many of the facilities we see today in the Netherlands did not exist in the 50s and 60s. They made it policy to make cycling and walking a priority. The difference between them at that time and us now: political will.

You&#039;re 100 percent right about what it would take to create such a system.

You&#039;ll note on Carbon Trace that I often modify &quot;infrastructure&quot; with &quot;appropriate.&quot; And by &quot;appropriate&quot; I mean facilities that give bicycles priority and discourage driving. We may never get there. So until then, I promote safe integration on the streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert&#8230; Yes. I&#8217;m familiar with those issues. One interesting thing to remember: Many of the facilities we see today in the Netherlands did not exist in the 50s and 60s. They made it policy to make cycling and walking a priority. The difference between them at that time and us now: political will.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re 100 percent right about what it would take to create such a system.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll note on Carbon Trace that I often modify &#8220;infrastructure&#8221; with &#8220;appropriate.&#8221; And by &#8220;appropriate&#8221; I mean facilities that give bicycles priority and discourage driving. We may never get there. So until then, I promote safe integration on the streets.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://isocrates.us/bike/2008/11/frosty-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=540#comment-841</guid>
		<description>Hi there,

I&#039;m sure your familiar with the argument against cycle tracks.  There is no shortage of evidence pointing towards a much higher rate of intersection crashes since those places went to that sort of infrastructure.  That is also with a culture far, far different than here in the United States.

For example, in most countries if a bike and car collide the motorist is at fault PERIOD.  It really does not matter what really happened and its the opposite of what typically happens here.

Another point is that they have 90 degree intersections resulting in slower turns by motorists and no right turn on red.

All of those things can make a sidepath really dangerous here in the states.

I feel that we will come up with some solutions but the typically American sidepath or &quot;wide sidewalk&quot; is really irresponsible.

It could work if American traffic engineers/city council people were willing to pay for bicycle only signals and willing to stop all other intersection traffic while bicycles cross or make turns.  Of course we fret over adding even a few seconds worth of wait time to motorists or to lower the level of service of an intersection so that probably will not happen.

For more information I would consult AASHTO or the FHWA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure your familiar with the argument against cycle tracks.  There is no shortage of evidence pointing towards a much higher rate of intersection crashes since those places went to that sort of infrastructure.  That is also with a culture far, far different than here in the United States.</p>
<p>For example, in most countries if a bike and car collide the motorist is at fault PERIOD.  It really does not matter what really happened and its the opposite of what typically happens here.</p>
<p>Another point is that they have 90 degree intersections resulting in slower turns by motorists and no right turn on red.</p>
<p>All of those things can make a sidepath really dangerous here in the states.</p>
<p>I feel that we will come up with some solutions but the typically American sidepath or &#8220;wide sidewalk&#8221; is really irresponsible.</p>
<p>It could work if American traffic engineers/city council people were willing to pay for bicycle only signals and willing to stop all other intersection traffic while bicycles cross or make turns.  Of course we fret over adding even a few seconds worth of wait time to motorists or to lower the level of service of an intersection so that probably will not happen.</p>
<p>For more information I would consult AASHTO or the FHWA.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Cline</title>
		<link>http://isocrates.us/bike/2008/11/frosty-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-840</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isocrates.us/bike/?p=540#comment-840</guid>
		<description>And safe!! :-) Now, we just need to keep getting the word out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And safe!! <img src='http://isocrates.us/bike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Now, we just need to keep getting the word out.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://isocrates.us/bike/2008/11/frosty-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is something exhilarating when you know you have the commitment to ride when other riders give up. Bikes are fun!! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is something exhilarating when you know you have the commitment to ride when other riders give up. Bikes are fun!! <img src='http://isocrates.us/bike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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